From Before Sunrise, Before Sunset
Message 1
From: "vainer44" <vainer44@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:25 pm
Subject: hello test
...test...
Message 2
From: "vainer44" <vainer44@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:50 pm
Subject: only 3 members so far?
...I thought this would take off...
Message 3
From: "Edwin Yang" <edwinyang@h...>
Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:38 pm
Subject: RE: [sunriseandsunset] only 3 members
so far?
...Give'em time.
Message 12
From: "Jen Woyan" <jwoyan@c...>
Date: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:54 am
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] hello all/ending
...We choose the safer, less difficult path
~ isn't that the crux of what Jesse and Celine
wrangle with in the car back to her flat? They
acknowledge to one another their weaknesses and
fears - not necessarily looking for the other
to understand or accept or fix their 'issues'
- they just feel so incredibly relieved to voice
these fears to another human being at all. It
is something that I believe they would never imagine
sharing with their current 'partners' - too frightening.
So their choice, while necessary, would be incredibly
profound for not just themselves, but all the
ancillary persons they touch each day.
Message 13
From: tietableguy@y...
Date: Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:58 am
Subject: Re: hello all/ending
...i think they're both willing to work on their
relationship, but will they end up together? I
don't know and here's why: Jesse loves his son,
and divorce would end at least half of his time
with him. Celine is commitment-phobic, and any
long-term relationship with her is an iffy chance
at best.
Message 14
From: "Edwin Yang" <edwinyang@h...>
Date: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:29 am
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] hello all/ending
...I loved getting caught off-guard. I walked
in knowing the movie was only 80 minutes, and
hating the fact I knew that. I was so sure it
would finish before it began; I thought that
was it when they got off the boat and met the
limo.
Message 19
From: "Edwin Yang" <edwinyang@h...>
Date: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:14 pm
Subject: RE: [sunriseandsunset] he says "Celine"
...They shake hands - I love that, because that
is what happens when strangers really connect
- the first conversation happens, then the introductions.
Message 20
From: Danial Monckton <vainer44@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:30 pm
Subject: RE: [sunriseandsunset] Re: hello all/ending
...What did I think of the ending? I loved it.
I could not believe that that was the end when
I first saw it. I was thinking how could they
end it like this. But after I saw it the second
time I realized it was perfect.
Message 22
From: "edwinpyang" <edwinyang@h...>
Date: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:15 pm
Subject: say hello?
...If I may nitpick on one line from Before
Sunrise, it's when Celine says, "I think I was
ready to sleep with you when we first got off
the train..." That line rings false to me, because
I am not convinced either one of them had sex
on their minds at first. I believe in the honesty
of their conversation throughout the day and night
in Vienna, and that they really felt something
for each other.
Message 31
From: "Chen-yu \(Jenny\), Chen" <chenche5@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:57 am
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Audience reaction
...I guess guys feel it funny because Celine
was being neurotic and emotional in her cute french
way, but to me, a woman at her late 20s, that
scene was not THAT funny. It was sad, because
it was brutally real. It was like no matter how
successful/ independent she is, there was still
something missing... and the thing that is missing,
could be her "real" connection with Jesse.
Message 32
From: tietableguy@y...
Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:33 am
Subject: Re: Audience reaction
...i'm a male in my mid-30's and i agree: that
whole scene was heart-rending. Celine is truly
heartsick at (for lack of a better term) "always
a bridesmaid, never a bride" and anyone who actually
thought about it would realize how terrible it
is to be in that position.
Message 39
From: "Allison" <clasikfanatik@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:35 pm
Subject: oh the sadness!
...Anyway, as for the first movie, Before Sunrise,
I first saw it when I was 14 and adored it! People
always seem to talk about how this movie would
only make an impact on you if you were around
the same age as the characters but for me, the
overall message regarding the existence of human
connections was powerful enough that although
I had yet to experience the emotions felt by the
characters, I was still able to connect with them.
Message 45
From: "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:12 pm
Subject: Re: Audience reaction
...The key to any relationship is balance. If
you love another person more than they love you,
you're probably doomed. If the reverse is true,
then they probably are. I think Celine and Jesse
work as a pair because they are emotionally in
the same place.
Message 47
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:31 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Before Sunset
Trailer
... I feel so melancholic right now...Almost
as if my "other self" is actually living the life
I imagine in beautiful Vienna at this very moment...
I don't know why, but I have always been tied
to Vienna in a very weird (perhaps karmic?) way.
Before Sunrise enhances this tie, as it is one
of my favourite movies.
Message 51
From: "mittenkg" <mittenkg@y...>
Date: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:21 am
Subject: Re: say hello?
...As far as Celine's line about knowing she'd
have sex with Jesse as soon as she got off the
train, that line rang as true to me as any other.
I've definitely known when I was going to have
sex with a guy that early--almost every time in
fact. (That's why we sit next to them in trains!
ha-ha--please don't read this any psychos/stalkers)
Most of what Celine says in the film sounded so
true to me, even if I saw myself as a silly idiot
in her words. Like she said, Why do we have to
make everything so complicated?
Message 52
From: "Yang-Ming" <r89227010@n...>
Date: Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:08 am
Subject: Re: say hello?
...I saw "Before Sunrise" for the first time
when I was a freshman in college. It's when I
became addicted to watching movies especially
those non-blockbusters. I guess I'd kind of weird
for this but I just don't regard movie as pure
entertainment. I was hoping something more than
that. The synopsis of "Before Sunrise" attracted
my attention and I joined some classmates to see
that movie. I just LOVE it so much. I wished to
have similar encounter like Jessie. Having the
chance to discuss issues about life not just love
related matters. About an year later, I got the
chance to travel in Europe by train but things
didn't happen as planned :p However, I did make
some new friends and had couple pleasant chats
throughout the trip.
Message 54
From: "mike" <mike.email@g...>
Date: Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:37 am
Subject: Re: say hello?
...what would you do if you are married with
a child and meet your biggest love in life again???
Is it better to divorce and risk to see your child
only at weekend, but live together with your biggest
love? It seems to me that you can't really say
what's wrong or right in this context. What do
you think about it?
Message 57
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: say hello?
...Then, there was something about the honesty
and raw emotion during that car scene in particular
that has brought me to a place of reflection and
meditation about my own life. I am now trying
to figure out where I am headed and where I would
like to be... And, like Celine, will the memory
of one love and the "what if?" prevent me from
fully letting go with someone else ... I haven't
been the same since I've seen it...
Message 61
From: Jill Lee <jillannalee@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:10 am
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: oh the sadness!
...I think Before Sunset opens up a new beginning.
I love how it ends; it still leaves so much hope
and so much of the dream; although I think this
time around, it's more realistic. I felt that
Before Sunrise idealized a serendipitous encounter
with the "one" at its best. However in Before
Sunset, Jesse and Celine had this connection
and relationship that seemed more human and less
'fairy tale-like'. You still see the happiness,
hope, and love they have for each other that I
can somehow feel in the end, that, they will
be okay.
Message 64
From: "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:10 am
Subject: Re: Celine's excuse
...after looking at the photos (Celine's apartment)
Jesse is loving her even more, as he gets to
absorb in, the details of nine years of imagination;
hence he reaches for the music... The choice
of songs Just in Time are not coincidental;
seemingly nothing in the script is. She came
back into his life 'just in time,' bringing back
a beautiful part of his soul before it died.
They won't let the second chance get away.
Message 67
From: "Edwin Yang" <edwinyang@h...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:04 am
Subject: RE: [sunriseandsunset] Re: Celines
excuse
...how jarring it must have been for Jesse to
see where Celine lives. Up until then, this girl
had only existed in that one night in Vienna,
and 9 years of thinking about her and idealizing
her since. Now, all of a sudden she has walls
of reality surrounding the two of them.
Message 70
From: Jill Lee <jillannalee@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:24 am
Subject: RE: [sunriseandsunset] Re: Celine's
excuse
...Maybe I just want to stay naive of the fact
that it's possible... But I also just want to
believe that Jesse and Celine really had something
for each other the moment the first words came
out of them, in the train to Vienna.
Message 81
From: "josephine_1014" <josephine_1014@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:08 pm
Subject: Jesse's Book
...In reference to Jesse's book...I wonder to
whom it was dedicated? I wish it were really
available for purchase!
Message 86
From: "Jeremy Zorn" <jeremyzorn@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:22 pm
Subject: RE: [sunriseandsunset] Which is the
better movie?
...the scene in the car was one of the most
raw and "dramatic" that I've ever seen.
Message 88
From: "Chen-Yu Chen" <chenche5@m...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:52 pm
Subject: Re: Which is the better movie?
...Knowing the story didn't end up there on
that platform nine years ago, and that they have
a second chance to rekindle their love, it just
makes me happy and content (btw, the day they
were supposed to meet is my birthday!)
Message 93
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Which is the
better movie?
...I like the second movie better only because
I find the characters more exposed. They're more
aware of "life" and the fact that it doesn't
stop for anyone, even those with a true soul
connection. Before Sunrise has become the dream-world
and Before Sunset is the reality we face.
Message 95
From: Ali <mittenkg@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:29 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Suicide?
...What a pain for the filmmaker, to have test/canned
versions of the film accidentally distributed
to the press. I love Before Sunset as-is, so
I'm glad Linklater canned the suicide scars shot.
Whether Celine attempted suicide or not isn't
necessarily relevant to their connection, but
I suppose it's relevant to why the night would
have meant so much to her.
Message 98
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:39 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Foundation of
a relationship
...Sex is not the premise of either of these
two films. I believe Linklater wanted to show
that sex is secondary (almost a bonus) to a true
soul connection. By the time Celine and Jesse
did "the deed", they were connected on a deeper
level than that of the typical 'one night stand'.
Message 103
From: "Allison" <clasikfanatik@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:53 pm
Subject: Re: Foundation of a relationship
...you only had to look at how heartbroken they
were at the parting scene at the train station;
to see the deep connection they had with each
other that went beyond a mere one-night tryst...
didn't you just loved the long gaze they kept
on exchanging at the plaza the morning after?
It's so indicative of how their feelings for
each other had evolved over the few hours they
spent together...it was magical...
Message 109
From: "hiroshiupshur" <hiroshiupshur@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:39 pm
Subject: Foundation
...it was about communication. It was about
being truthful and open.
Message 110
From: "Jeremy Zorn" <jeremyzorn@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Foundation
...They connected mentally, so they talked for
14 hours. They connected physically, so they
had sex.
Message 112
From: "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:21 am
Subject: Re: Foundation
...Jesse speaks about marrying because of his
higher self but he hasn't been honest with
himself. His higher self is with Celine. A love
on this level can only bring out our best. The
connection that these two have spiritually is
on a far different plane (than mere lust). The
pain that they have experienced is a reflection
of nothing else measuring up to the apex of their
euphoria for those 14 hours. It's almost a sacred
thing.
Message 113
From: Jill Lee <jillannalee@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:46 am
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Foundation of
a relationship
...IF there weren't any feelings or connection
between Celine and Jesse. Why write a book about
it?... Why dream about her?... Why think about
each other?... Why seek each other out?...
Message 114
From: "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:02 am
Subject: Re: Foundation of a relationship
...The case for being cautious is when relationships
are being dealt with, on a lower karmic level,
which is to say less about spiritual bond, cohesion,
compatibility and more about instant gratification.
How long does it take to love someone or something?
I suppose that varies for everyone. I've had a
few cases in life where I loved something or
someone instantaneously.... If you don't take
a chance, you can never reach that higher plane.
Message 116
From: tietableguy@y...
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:48 am
Subject: Re: Foundation of a relationship
...the most important thing of all: if only
one person in the relationship is working on
it, it won't last. That's why I'm not sure where
Jesse and Celine will end up: I'd like to see
them stay together, but there are hard choices
for both to make.
Message 118
From: "edwinpyang" <edwinyang@h...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:16 am
Subject: Jesse's book and Celine's song
...I would like to say that Jesse writing a
whole book as a means for finding Celine is possibly
the most romantic gesture I've ever heard of.
I suppose another way to go would have been to
write a song about that night in Vienna...(as
Celine does). Anybody would be so lucky to spend
14 hours that good, vibrant, and life-affirming
with another person in a whole lifetime.
Message 119
From: "edwinpyang" <edwinyang@h...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:33 am
Subject: lyrics to A Waltz For A Night
...I think Celine's song is the single most
romantic ACTUAL MOMENT that we see in either
film. I've never seen a character more vulnerable
than when she pauses and blurts out the name
"Jesse".
Message 120
From: "Aidan" <oranje68@h...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:06 am
Subject: Movie Review
1.- ...I would not be surprised if Ethan's brilliant
novel "The Hottest State" was not partly written
with half an eye to reconciling his own past.
The male autobiographical novel is often confessional,
helplessly romantic and ultimately impossible
'the big intense love' that many men have somewhere
before the age of 23-- that just cannot be equaled
until you have your first child. 2.- ...They
froze the night in time and immortalized it by
not allowing real life to rot at the edges of
the memory. What they had, was not love because
love is something that also knows bad times when
your partner may not always be so perfect.
Message 121
From: Allison <clasikfanatik@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:54am
Subject: Re: The uncertainty of whether they
had sex (Before Sunrise)
...Did anyone notice that when they show the
flashbacks at the end of the movie and when they
show the grass where they made love, that there
is an empty wine bottle where they were? C&J are
litterbugs!!
Message 124
From: hiroshi upshur <hiroshiupshur@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:29am
Subject: Re: Movie Review
...I am the only one here that was concerned
with the state of his wife. He has a wife and
we all feel for Celine and Jesse - but what about
his wife? What about her boyfriend ? I said I
can't and one should not come to a final conclusion
until we hear from them .
Message 125
From: hiroshi upshur <hiroshiupshur@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:39am
Subject: Re: Jesse's book and Celine's song
...As some famous poet once said - "Love is
NOT A FEELING to be heard."
Message 133
From: jerri willmore <colouringpurple@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Foundation of a relationship
...I think we all have ideals :/ The most important
thing is people caring about each other. Thank
you for all your thoughts.
Message 150
From: john griffiths <john.griffiths@g...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: message board ?
...one new recruit here...hello all - just saw
BS today as it was only released in the UK today....absolutely
stunned....everything I wanted from it, and more
-
Message 151
From: Danial Monckton <vainer44@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: message board ?
...Here come the English. (See prior message)
Message 152
From: john griffiths <john.griffiths@g...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: message board ?
>>>>>Here come the english>>>> ...and the Scottish
:-) (see prior message)
Message 155
From: samantha <samantha@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Ok people
...Anyway, there's lots of great lines in Sunrise,
but I think the best is when Celine tells her
friend on the phone that Jesse kind of kisses
like an adolescent, and he's insulted, and she's
amused. But my favorite moment is void of dialogue
-- the listening booth. As for Sunset, Celine's
outburst in the limo breaks my heart and inspires
me over and over again. Delpy is so fantastic
in the sequel.
Message 156
From: Ali <mittenkg@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: The uncertainty of whether they
had sex (Before Sunrise)
...So, in essence, that, to me, is the significance
of the wine bottle and glasses left behind. It
shows that Jesse and Celine WERE there, it really
did happen, this wasn't just a dream. Could this
also be the purpose of having a tottering old
lady walk past their place of consummation? I
always thought she served as a juxtaposition
between young, impulsive love and the steady purposefulness
of the elderly. But maybe her presence has greater
symbolism? She might represent the passing of
time, the gray area between dreaming and reality
or maybe she's just a nod to Celine's thoughts
about being an old woman.
Message 159
From: Ali <mittenkg@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:08pm
Subject: Re: Ok people
...I also agree with Sam that a favorite line
is from Celine describing Jesse kissing like an
adolescent. I also like how she calls him clumsy--that's
the first (only) time I've ever heard that word
used endearingly, and it's the perfect word to
describe him. And the entire limousine eyelash
poem--I SWOONED the first time I heard that cute
bum read it! (who IS that actor?)
Message 162
From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:19pm
Subject: The irony of convincing Celine to get
off the train
...Is anyone else struck by the remarkable irony
of the dialogue in the first film whereupon Jesse
convinces Celine to get off the train with him?
Picture yourself married 20 years from now, but
your marriage doesn't have that same spark. I'm
just as boring...etc. In reality, she didn't get
married and the scenario he presents more represents
HIM. But instead of him not being anything special,
he in fact is the best thing that ever happened
to her. So while he's selling the go-with-the-flow,
it's-not-a-big-deal mentality, in fact it IS a
big deal, maybe the most important choice she'll
ever make romantically...until, of course, they
don't exchange phone numbers!
Message 166
From: kristel pizon <kedp317@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:25pm
Subject: Re: lasting love
...I was thinking today about the first night
my husband and i spent together, talking, and
sharing and falling in love. It was a wonderful
night and I think if it had been our only night
he definitely would have been the one that got
away, the person i would think about for the rest
of my life, what if.... Instead we got married,
4 kids, a house, stress, love and pain, etc...
you know the drill and now, though I love him
still, much of the time we are just surviving
this whole life thing, so i think in fact Jesse
and Celine have a much better chance at their
love lasting on a deep level, because they are
meeting now instead of Dec. 16th. Now they know
what it is like to live a life without each other,
and i think their love is deeper because of it.
Had they dated in their 20's the depth of love
would not have been as substantial simply because
they would never have experienced an existence
without it. Voici mes penses pour se soir...
Message 167
From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:32pm
Subject: Re: lasting love
...What if Celine had gotten his number and
didn't call anyway? What if she tracked him down
via the Internet three or four years later? What
if he was on the way to his wedding, saw the person
he thought was Celine, stopped and it was? Would
he have called off the wedding right then and
there? As you well know, there are commitment
people" people who can devote their whole heart
and mind to a relationship after only knowing
the other a short while. They CHOOSE to do so
and invest that energy. Some people spend years
together and never give much of anything. So I
don't buy the rationalistic arguments about age,
responsibility, etc. Yes, there are those who
live off many one-night stands. But some people
really are willing to put everything on the line
for a loving energy on another level. When two
of those people meet, that rare instance, incredible
magic can occur. That's why we love these movies.
We believe in magic.
Message 169
From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:51pm
Subject: Re: lasting love
...Watching Jesse throughout this second movie,
while he mostly remains more stoic than Celine--
he definitely looks more weathered IMHO. Not living
the dream has taxed him. She can always tell herself
that on Dec. 16 he probably wasn't there anyway
(until this moment). But he knew she wasn't there.
And that is far more disillusioning than anything
else. He says he forgives her, but until she actually
shows up at the bookstore, my guess is that deep
down, she really has wounded him to the point
of accepting a lot less in life. She sought more
in life-- and didn't find it. It's really two
different kinds of frustration.
Message 171
From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:08pm
Subject: Re: lasting love
...You must not only find The One, but be
The One. So many people wonder why they can't
find a true love. Maybe part of their problem
is that they don't take themselves to another
level.
Message 172
From: kristel pizon <kedp317@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:23pm
Subject: Re: lasting love
...I am confused about what makes anyone 'the
one' are you 'the one' simply because you are
sharing your lives and therefore by definition,
you are 'the one' or are you the one, because
you didn't spend your life together and you got
away and you spend your life thinking about 'what
could have been'. If we are spending our life
with 'the one', then why do so many people who
truly love each other seek others after years
of marriage? I'm saying maybe what makes them
even more 'the one' is the fact that they didn't
spend their 20's together getting cynical together,
their years apart: solidified their oneness for
each other.
Message 176
From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 24, 2004 0:09am
Subject: Re: The uncertainty of whether they
had sex (Before Sunrise)
...Remember Celine in the church saying that
she always saw herself as an old woman, waiting
to die? This can also be the Celine of the future,
the old woman looking back. In a way, maybe that
was why she was so close with her grandmother,
because she saw her as a peer on some level.
Message 181
From: Ali <mittenkg@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:40 am
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] The irony of
convincing Celine to get off the train
...but gee, it's moments like that kind of irony
in Sunrise that I start thinking of MY ones who
got away. Ridiculous, I know, but you can't help
thinking that way sometimes when you're single:
every other missed opportunity could have been
the end-all perfect fella. Or not. Or was.
It's pathetic!
Message 184
From: "cosdelli" <cosdelli@h...>
Date: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:18 pm
Subject: before midnight
...if I had a dime for every time i referred
people to watch before sunrise, I would be a billionaire
(ok, maybe a millionaire by now). sunrise was
and is a "gem". Sunset is more so, because of
the maturity and sincerity of the characters -
we grew up with them and we all relate to them.
It is a treasure. All credit goes to Delpy, Linklater
and Hawke. But I sense that Delpy's words are
all over this film. I already have the third film
in my mind - 'Before Midnight!'
Message 185
From: "Ashley" <cheerygal1@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:44 pm
Subject: Celine and Jesse in Waking Life
...I loved Linklater's "Waking Life" And enjoyed
seeing Celine and Jesse appearing in the movie.
I didn't think that there would be a sequel to
"Before Sunrise". And I thought Linklater was
just placing the characters in "Waking Life" to
let the fans know that the two did meet at the
train and are happy. But I'm much more excited
that he didn't leave it at that and actually gave
us another story on the characters.
Message 191
From: "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:04 am
Subject: Re: The irony of convincing Celine
to get off the train
...Yes, I'm married, but I can honestly say
that there were several others that I COULD have
married given only slightly different circumstances.
I dedicated two poetry anthologies (neither published)
to special women, neither of whom I married. What
if I had met them a year earlier? A year later?
What if that wonderful girl I met when I was a
senior in high school had wanted me to go with
her, when she went back to Europe? I'm not expressing
an overwhelming regret over my life, but given
some other circumstances, things could've been
dramatically different.
Message 216
From: "Caroline Pohlman" <dorothy_caroline_waniak@y...>
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:39 pm
Subject: Hello
...I saw "Before Sunrise" in 1995 on my very,
very first date with my now husband - so as you
can see, we are very attached to this movie and
were elated to hear about the sequel. I saw it
yesterday in London and loved it. I love how
Linklater doesn't patronize youth and doesn't
sugar-coat the 30's angst, either. My only sadness
is in knowing that Jesse must now choose between
Celine and Henry...
Message 219
From: "tjh2947" <tyler.haney.03@a...>
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:41 pm
Subject: Comments and Recommendations
...did you guys notice how similar Jesse's current
marriage resembles his parent's own marriage?
In "BSunrise" he describes his folks as "two
people who didn't like one another too much, who
decided to get married and have a kid." They only
stayed together for Jesse and his sister's benefit.
Now, in "BSunset", Jesse knows he's becoming
his father. And, obviously, he's not happy.
Message 220
From: Ali <mittenkg@y...>
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Comments and
Recommendations
...I don't have film recommendations that are
thematically similar to S/S, but I go to silent
film festivals and many of my favorite romantic
comedies have a dreamy, montage-y quality. So
do horror flicks, for that matter. Of course in
silent films, the comedy tends to be more slapstick
than ironic, and the dialogue is next to nil,
but if you get a chance to see Harold Lloyd, Mary
Pickford or Chaplin on the big screen--particularly
with live music--check it out and you'll see what
I mean. And with all this montage-talk, I'm always
a sucker for that over-the-top and way-romantic
spliced-film montage at the end of Cinema Paradiso.
Message 222
From: samantha <samantha@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Comments and
Recommendations
...The settings and relationships in these two
films [BSunset and Lost In Translation] are so
different (unlike some critic's reviews) that
I couldn't even find a comparison between the
two (other than the obvious 'strangers meet in
a foreign locale') when I first saw 'Lost In Translation'
I found difference upon difference...Both seem
to be about: connections are valuable, but in
LiT they are extremely transitory: These aren't
people who would necessarily connect in any way
under different circumstances. They don't talk
about anything "real" for most of the time they're
together. They silently relate to pain and circumstance.
In contrast: Jesse and Celine could find each
other at any time and find a connection. Bob and
Charlotte... I'm not so sure.
Message 223
From: timelord2029@a...
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] The Notebook
In a message dated 25/07/2004 19:09:32 GMT Daylight
Time, vainer44@yahoo.com writes: [I have not
seen [Lost in Translation] yet...I'll have to
check it out. Was it really that good?] ...oh
man! It was a total emotional roller coaster.
No other film has ever made me cry more than that
one. Just take plenty of hankies and prepare yourself.
Message 224
From: darthmaul2112@y...
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: lasting love
...I walked out of the theater (and for several
hours later) feeling the exact same way you just
described. I think love in marriages changes
dramatically after several years and "freshness"
or "magic" can fade. I think what mostly causes
the freshness to disappear or possibly fade,
is that we as individuals (especially in the US)
just get too caught up in the hustle and bustle
of life and don't take the time to "stop and smell
the roses". When I really sit down and think about
it, my wife has so many beautiful qualities and
an honest heart of gold which is so rare in this
day and age. I couldn't imagine not wanting to
be a part of her little quirks, facial expressions,
body language etc. That is love right there, DEEP
love...All I know is that the happiest and most
satisfied I feel each day is the moment I crawl
into bed and my wife is turned to her right and
I spoon right up to her. That may sound goofy
and gay but it's true. That little moment of
time each day makes everything worthwhile. Bottom
line: appreciate those little quirks and moments
of bliss and you will continue to love them forever.
Message 225
From: "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:25 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love
...I think the key in this, is to love them
that much to begin with. A lot of people settle
for a particular partner, say it's time to
get married, marry for money or for status. The
reality is that too many people really don't give
that much energy to begin with and thus things
never get all that positive. I think it's more
than just a subtle appreciation of small characteristics,
but also a willingness to love something else.
Some love changes, some don't. Clearly Jesse and
Celine are different in a lot of ways, but the
reality is that they loved each other all these
years and are gonna love each other no matter
what happens. It's a very conscious commitment
to loving. And the magic that we so admire is
the DEPTH of the love.
Message 228
From: kristel pizon <kedp317@y...>
Date: Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:45 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love
...I think sometimes in reality, the depths
of love can be endless but still the reality of
life makes it hard to keep that love alive and
active. I married out of very passionate love,
like I mentioned before. We met (I was 23) we
fell instantly in love, married 5 weeks later,
and sometimes I think that love would of continued
on a different, maybe more deep level, had we
been separated for the next 11 years, instead
of married. I think that the everyday stresses
can kill the magic regardless of the depth of
love.
Message 229
From: "hinckley_buzzards" <rtaylor340@a...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:15 am
Subject: Re: Comments and Recommendations
...about Lost in Translation. I missed it in
the theaters but I bought the DVD. Before watching
it, I read some reviews that mentioned Before
Sunrise, so I got my hopes up and I was disappointed.
LIT is visually beautiful and the soundtrack serves
it well (I listen to the CD often at work), but
LIT was not very verbal, and the conversation
is what makes Before Sunrise special. So I think
those reviewers who compared LIT to BS were missing
the point.
Message 230
From: "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:34 am
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love
I believe it was Khalil Gibran that said Let
there be spaces in your togetherness. Sometimes
I feel like my wife and I get along because we
don't get sick of each other. We give each other
space. I'm not insinuating that is a problem for
you, but I hear ya in terms of everyday problems....finances,
errands, kids, work, etc. I think it saps one's
creative juices which are critical in romantic
love. Nothing works best on auto pilot. In time,
my wife came to realize that without energy (without
working out, recreational activities) I was a
different person. So she gave me more room to
be myself and it improved our relationship.
Message 231
From: Danial Monckton <vainer44@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:45 am
Subject: Make time stop(INXS)
Anybody remember the song Not Enough Time by
INXS? ...I was just listening to this song and
it has always reminded me of an old lover I had...And
I just thought...What would be the song Jesse
would have had for Celine?
Message 233
From: "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:59 am
Subject: Trapeze lyrics
...For anybody who wondered.... One of my favorite
songs in the first movie and on the soundtrack
is Lou Christie's Trapeze. He's got kind of
a B-52's sound and almost sounds absurd at times.
But there's something about the frantic element
in this song that is so appropriate for their
romance, particularly in that scene where they're
getting the bottle of wine. Only someone young
and daring would ask such a thing. One other thought.
The last set of lyrics would be very appropriate
for what Jesse would've thought when Celine DIDN'T
show up on Dec. 16. Anyway....
Message 235
From: tietableguy@y...
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:13 am
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love
...I met my wife in May and married her in December,
yet we have a deeper relationship now than when
we met. Don't let anyone fool you, a marriage
is hard work. Yes the sheer thrill of the newness
is gone, but that doesn't mean your relationship
is ruined. "All the qualities you fell in love
with are still there, they are just familiar now.
Find a way to make them new, and keep doing that
and I guarantee you won't complain anymore."--the
last words are from my grandfather, who was married
in 1940 after a month of courtship.
Message 238
From: "edwinpyang" <edwinyang@h...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:40 pm
Subject: Edge of the Ocean lyrics
"Edge Of The Ocean" by Ivy "There's a place
I dream about where the sun never goes out. And
the sky is deep and blue. Won't you take me there
with you..." ...It almost hurts to know this
song won't be on the soundtrack when I eventually
get a copy. They did a nice job of matching the
song's opening strain to the mood of the movie
(Sunset) by putting it on the WB site and in the
trailer - someone said it played over the closing
credits, but I don't remember...I thought the
part on the web site was just a good sample of
mood music; it's a pleasant shock to know the
lyrics as I do now and see the narrative meaning
it takes on for Celine and Jesse's reunion. This
song, for me at least, has become as synonymous
with these beloved movies as Kath Bloom's "Come
Here."
Message 239
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] The Notebook
...Here's my 2 cents on The Notebook: I went
to see it last week because a lot of people have
mentioned that it's a really good romance and
storyline. "A movie like no other". The movie
is entertainment Hollywood-style, and I don't
believe that it reached the emotional depth of
Before Sunset. I walked out of the cinema as the
same girl that walked in (short $9.25 CAD)...
I saw Before Sunset twice, the last time being
July 13th, and I'm still thinking about it and
the effect it has had on my own thought processes
about life and love. But, that's just me...
Message 240
From: "vainer44" <vainer44@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:13 pm
Subject: 99 members people
...We have only been around for a little more
then a week and we are at 100 people.....well
99 but I'm sure we will be there by the end of
the day.
Message 241
From: "josephine_1014" <josephine_1014@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: The Notebook
...I have been thinking so much about "Before
Sunset"...more so than I ever thought I would.
Message 245
From: "fairmanimation" <fairmanimation@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:49 pm
Subject: Re: Neurotic
...the part where she goes on about how all
of her past boyfriends are married but no one
has ever proposed to her was a little scary for
me because I got the same rant from an ex-girlfriend.
Message 250
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Subject: Re: Neurotic
...I believe that too many of us worry about
sounding neurotic or crazy so we end up hiding
behind these masks we call "normal". The car scene
was the moment of truth.... both finally remove
the masks they've been wearing all these years.
Message 251
From: "Jeremy Zorn" <jeremyzorn@c...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:00 pm
Subject: RE: [sunriseandsunset] Re: Neurotic
...it happens when they are finally in a confined
space, as though the physical intimacy has somehow
forced them to be more open. They're stuck in
the car, and there's no place to hide -- which
is, of course, why Celine wants so desperately
to get out. I'd posit she'd be fine if they resumed
their walk, talking without necessarily looking
at one another and able to react to other stimuli
(the birds, the river, Notre Dame) when the most
immediate grow too raw.
Message 252
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:24 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: The Notebook
...Linklater created two films where, by now,
I feel like I know Celine & Jesse because they
represent 'me' my friends, my neighbors... These
two characters represent the people who don't
get to have a happy ending...Or the ones whose
road to a happy ending is strewn with a lot more
obstacles than the ones shown in The Notebook
(movie)...
Message 256
From: kristel pizon <kedp317@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:37 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Smoking scene
...This scene itself didn't bother me but I
find irony in that she is discussing the pollution
of the world etc....while polluting her lungs...that
struck me...
Message 258
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:07 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Smoking scene
...I know.... smoking is a self-destructive
habit but, considering Celine's Parisian life-style
and emotional state, it is understandable that
she lights up once in a while... That cafe scene
is so Paris!
Message 259
From: "neo_arc" <neo_arc@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: Neurotic
...One thing I found on second viewing was how
powerful Jesse's own cathartic scene in the car
was. The first time I watched, it was all about
Celine for me, but the second time, Jesse's hit
me a little harder.
Message 262
From: Jill Lee <jillannalee@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love
...After seeing the movie, all I could think
of is why can't I have the same connection as
Celine and Jesse? Of course I'm fully aware of
the fact that it is a movie no matter how many
times I've said to everyone in this forum that
Sunset seemed to be the most realistic romantic
movie ever. But I did hope to have the same thing
-- and I did panic because I was afraid that I
started to believe in something so ideal that
it can't be true. And then somehow, I started
to lose hope for my boyfriend and myself... it
even drove me to depression that weekend...never
wanted to be affected by fictional characters...
much less by a movie -- but I guess that's why
I joined this group... because I was affected
by it... in a personal level.
Message 264
From: "spiderwebbeauty" <spiderwebbeauty@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: smoking ....hope, magic...
...They find each other fascinating and that
is what is so touching...they never got over one
another and they had that hope. HOPE and Magic.
I think this love story touches people on so many
levels. It is almost like a fantasy that could
come true. It could happen.
Message 267
From: kristel pizon <kedp317@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:31 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: The Notebook
...it wasn't the lost years of opportunity that
tempered the happy moments of this film it was
what Jesse will have to do in order to be with
Celine, the choices he will have to make, the
changes that will effect everyone. I too, was
incredibly depressed after seeing the film, wondering
how one was supposed to follow their heart and
true self once they were committed to a relationship,
a family. Do we completely give all that up for
the sake of the family? ...That was the pain and
beauty of this film for me: that Jesse must face
that and then go further, however it 's different
for a man than a woman, if a man follows his true
self and leaves his family it is more accepted--
than for a woman.
Message 271
From: "apriorivirtue" <apriorivirtue@n...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:05 pm
Subject: The opposite of depression/doubt
...Personally, I am one of the originals who
has actually waited with bated breath for Before
Sunset for nine years...this movie didn't depressed
me, but actually made me be thankful for what
I have! ...for me was an intimate portrayal of
hope...I felt like Jesse - "My problems are bigger,
but I'm more equipped to handle them"...It further
highlighted the reality of my current relationship
and the deep value it has. For the longest time
I subscribed to the notion of love being something
that comes in and out of your life. Now this movie
has pushed me back into a somewhat scary, yet
exhilarating place - maybe my current girlfriend
is "the one"?
Message 274
From: Suncana <suncana76@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:18 pm
Subject: Re: lasting love
...connections exist in more forms than one.
There are many levels of love and you can love
many people in the course of your life. I called
off my wedding five years ago because I realized
that the love I had for my fianc‰ wasn't the kind
of love I should have for the man I'm going to
spend the rest of my life with. Looking back,
there was always this nagging feeling that there
was someone else out there, I was supposed to
be with... I experienced it last year and for
the first time in my life, I was at peace. The
nagging feeling was gone. I was completely "me",
without any censorship or hesitation. It was a
very liberating feeling. Even though it was just
the beginning, it felt as if we knew each other
in many lifetimes before...Life is interesting,
yet sad...yet hopeful that way...
Message 285
From: "darcy424" <darcy424@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:25 pm
Subject: magic
...Maybe it's because I've traveled around Europe
by train like (Jesse & Celine) and have met fantastic
people and connected with them. The movie makes
me realize how important it is not to settle in
life when it comes to a relationship, certainly
not a marriage. I wonder how many couples come
out of that movie realizing that they are not
with their soul mate and that they wish they were?
It's exactly what I'm thinking and I know that
I'm tired of being in a mediocre relationship
and will continue searching for my soul mate.
Message 289
From: "Jennette" <misspig623@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:21 pm
Subject: Re: The Notebook
...I could relate. "What could have been?" --is
something we've all wondered at some point in
our lives.
Message 290
From: "spiderwebbeauty" <spiderwebbeauty@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:55 pm
Subject: Re: magic
...the scene in the car was the turning point...the
truth finally came out because they both new they
were running out of time...
Message 294
From: hiroshi upshur <hiroshiupshur@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:54 pm
Subject: Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: The Notebook
...Love is overcoming obstacles and total commitment
to the end. It's a fairy tale, only because to
achieve this "love" it takes sticking and working
thru the conflicts no matter what. It takes hard
work. We as a society seek the easy way. Divorce
is easy today... In Before Sunset, though a wonderful
film, I see the couple as a love that hasn't been
tested yet. "What if Celine had been in a wheelchair?
Both films are good as far as I am concerned but
I'm a realist and a skeptic in more ways than
one. If they were to continue: where would they
live ? What about his work in the US? What about
his son, his marriage? What about his wife? Will
his son accept his new step mom? We don't know
these things.
Next Person, Insert here Messages 301 - ...
