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Before Sunrise, Before Sunset

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Message 1

From:  "vainer44" <vainer44@y...> 
Date:  Thu Jul 15, 2004  7:25 pm 
Subject:  hello test

 ...test...
Message 2

From:  "vainer44" <vainer44@y...> 
Date:  Fri Jul 16, 2004  6:50 pm 
Subject:  only 3 members so far?

 ...I thought this would take off...
Message 3

From:  "Edwin Yang" <edwinyang@h...> 
Date:  Fri Jul 16, 2004  8:38 pm 
Subject:  RE: [sunriseandsunset] only 3 members 
so far?

 ...Give'em time.
Message 12

From:  "Jen Woyan" <jwoyan@c...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 18, 2004  12:54 am 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] hello all/ending

 ...We choose the safer, less difficult path 
~ isn't that the crux of what Jesse and Celine 
wrangle with in the car back to her flat? They 
acknowledge to one another their weaknesses and 
fears - not necessarily looking for the other 
to understand or accept or fix their 'issues' 
- they just feel so incredibly relieved to voice 
these fears to another human being at all. It 
is something that I believe they would never imagine 
sharing with their current 'partners' - too frightening. 
 So their choice, while necessary, would be incredibly 
profound for not just themselves, but all the 
ancillary persons they touch each day.
Message 13 

From:  tietableguy@y... 
Date:  Sun Jul 18, 2004  1:58 am 
Subject:  Re: hello all/ending

 ...i think they're both willing to work on their 
relationship, but will they end up together? I 
don't know and here's why: Jesse loves his son, 
and divorce would end at least half of his time 
with him. Celine is commitment-phobic, and any 
long-term relationship with her is an iffy chance 
at best.
Message 14

From:  "Edwin Yang" <edwinyang@h...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 18, 2004  4:29 am 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] hello all/ending

 ...I loved getting caught off-guard. I walked 
in knowing the movie was  only 80 minutes, and 
hating the fact I knew that. I was so sure it 
 would finish before it began; I thought that 
was it when they got off  the boat and met the 
limo.
Message 19

From:  "Edwin Yang" <edwinyang@h...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 19, 2004  4:14 pm 
Subject:  RE: [sunriseandsunset] he says "Celine"

 ...They shake hands - I love that, because that 
is what happens when strangers really connect 
- the first conversation happens, then  the introductions.
Message 20

From:  Danial Monckton <vainer44@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 19, 2004  5:30 pm 
Subject:  RE: [sunriseandsunset] Re: hello all/ending

 ...What did I think of the ending? I loved it. 
I could not believe that that was the end when 
I first saw it. I was thinking how could they 
end it like this. But after I saw it the second 
time I realized it was perfect.
Message 31

From:  "Chen-yu \(Jenny\), Chen" <chenche5@m...> 

Date:  Tue Jul 20, 2004  2:57 am 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Audience reaction

 ...I guess guys feel it funny because Celine 
was being neurotic and emotional in her cute french 
way, but to me, a woman at her late 20s, that 
scene was not THAT funny. It was sad, because 
it was brutally real. It was like no matter how 
successful/ independent she is, there was still 
something missing... and the thing that is missing, 
could be her "real" connection with Jesse.
Message 32

From:  tietableguy@y... 
Date:  Tue Jul 20, 2004  5:33 am 
Subject:  Re: Audience reaction

 ...i'm a male in my mid-30's and i agree: that 
whole scene was heart-rending. Celine is truly 
heartsick at (for lack of a better term) "always 
a bridesmaid, never a bride" and anyone who actually 
thought about it would realize how terrible it 
is to be in that position.
Message 39

From:  "Allison" <clasikfanatik@y...> 
Date:  Tue Jul 20, 2004  1:35 pm 
Subject:  oh the sadness! 

 ...Anyway, as for the first movie, Before Sunrise, 
I first saw it when I was 14 and adored it! People 
always seem to talk about how this movie would 
only make an impact on you if you were around 
the same age as the characters but for me, the 
overall message regarding the existence of human 
connections was powerful enough that although 
I had yet to experience the emotions felt by the 
characters, I was still able to connect with them.
Message 45

From:  "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...> 
Date:  Tue Jul 20, 2004  4:12 pm 
Subject:  Re: Audience reaction

 ...The key to any relationship is balance. If 
you love another person more than they love you, 
you're probably doomed. If the reverse is true, 
then they probably are. I think Celine and Jesse 
work as a pair because they are emotionally in 
the same place.
Message 47

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...> 
Date:  Tue Jul 20, 2004  5:31 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Before Sunset 
Trailer

 ... I feel so melancholic right now...Almost 
as if my "other self" is actually living the life 
I imagine in beautiful Vienna at this very moment... 
I don't know why, but I have always been tied 
to Vienna in a very weird (perhaps karmic?) way. 
Before Sunrise enhances this tie, as it is one 
of my favourite movies.
Message 51

From:  "mittenkg" <mittenkg@y...> 
Date:  Wed Jul 21, 2004  12:21 am 
Subject:  Re: say hello?

 ...As far as Celine's line about knowing she'd 
have sex with Jesse as soon as she got off the 
train, that line rang as true to me as any other. 
I've definitely known when I was going to have 
sex with a guy that early--almost every time in 
fact. (That's why we sit next to them in trains! 
ha-ha--please don't read this any psychos/stalkers) 
Most of what Celine says in the film sounded so 
true to me, even if I saw myself as a silly idiot 
in her words. Like she said, Why do we have to 
make everything so complicated?
Message 52

From:  "Yang-Ming" <r89227010@n...> 
Date:  Wed Jul 21, 2004  1:08 am 
Subject:  Re: say hello?

 ...I saw "Before Sunrise" for the first time 
when I was a freshman in college. It's when I 
became addicted to watching movies especially 
those non-blockbusters. I guess I'd kind of weird 
for this but I just don't regard movie as pure 
entertainment. I was hoping something more than 
that. The synopsis of "Before Sunrise" attracted 
my attention and I joined some classmates to see 
that movie. I just LOVE it so much. I wished to 
have similar encounter like Jessie. Having the 
chance to discuss issues about life not just love 
related matters. About an year later, I got the 
chance to travel in Europe by train but things 
didn't happen as planned :p However, I did make 
some new friends and had couple pleasant chats 
throughout the trip.
Message 54

From:  "mike" <mike.email@g...> 
Date:  Wed Jul 21, 2004  5:37 am 
Subject:  Re: say hello?

 ...what would you do if you are married with 
a child and meet your biggest love in life again??? 
Is it better to divorce and risk to see your child 
only at weekend, but live together with your biggest 
love? It seems to me that you can't really say 
what's wrong or right in this context. What do 
you think about it?
Message 57

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...> 
Date:  Wed Jul 21, 2004  1:50 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: say hello?

 ...Then, there was something about the honesty 
and raw emotion during that car scene in particular 
that has brought me to a place of reflection and 
meditation about my own life. I am now trying 
to figure out where I am headed and where I would 
like to be... And, like Celine, will the memory 
of one love and the "what if?" prevent me from 
fully letting go with someone else ... I haven't 
been the same since I've seen it...
Message 61

From:  Jill Lee <jillannalee@y...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  12:10 am  
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: oh the sadness!

 ...I think Before Sunset opens up a new beginning. 
I love how  it ends; it still leaves so much hope 
and so much of the  dream; although I think this 
time around, it's more realistic.  I felt that 
Before Sunrise idealized a serendipitous encounter 
 with the "one" at its best. However in Before 
Sunset, Jesse  and Celine had this connection 
and relationship that seemed  more human and less 
'fairy tale-like'. You still see the  happiness, 
hope, and love they have for each other that I 
can  somehow feel in the end, that, they will 
be okay.
Message 64

From:  "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  2:10 am  
Subject:  Re: Celine's excuse

 ...after looking at the photos (Celine's apartment) 
Jesse is  loving her even more, as he gets to 
absorb in, the details of  nine years of imagination; 
hence he reaches for the music...  The choice 
of songs Just in Time are not coincidental; 
 seemingly nothing in the script is. She came 
back into his  life 'just in time,' bringing back 
a beautiful part of his  soul before it died. 
They won't let the second chance get  away.
Message 67

From:  "Edwin Yang" <edwinyang@h...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  3:04 am  
Subject:  RE: [sunriseandsunset] Re: Celines 
excuse

 ...how jarring it must have been for Jesse to 
see where Celine  lives. Up until then, this girl 
had only existed in that  one night in Vienna, 
and 9 years of thinking about her and  idealizing 
her since. Now, all of a sudden she has walls 
of  reality surrounding the two of them.
Message 70

From:  Jill Lee <jillannalee@y...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  11:24 am  
Subject:  RE: [sunriseandsunset] Re: Celine's 
excuse

 ...Maybe I just want to stay naive of the fact 
that it's  possible... But I also just want to 
believe that Jesse and  Celine really had something 
for each other the moment the  first words came 
out of them, in the train to Vienna.
Message 81

From:  "josephine_1014" <josephine_1014@y...> 
 
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  5:08 pm  
Subject:  Jesse's Book

 ...In reference to Jesse's book...I wonder to 
whom it was  dedicated? I wish it were really 
available for purchase!
Message 86

From:  "Jeremy Zorn" <jeremyzorn@c...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  5:22 pm  
Subject:  RE: [sunriseandsunset] Which is the 
better movie?

 ...the scene in the car was one of the most 
raw and "dramatic"  that I've ever seen.
Message 88

From:  "Chen-Yu Chen" <chenche5@m...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  5:52 pm  
Subject:  Re: Which is the better movie?

 ...Knowing the story didn't end up there on 
that platform nine  years ago, and that they have 
a second chance to rekindle  their love, it just 
makes me happy and content (btw, the day  they 
were supposed to meet is my birthday!)
Message 93

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  6:27 pm  
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Which is the 
better movie?

 ...I like the second movie better only because 
I find the  characters more exposed. They're more 
aware of "life"  and the fact that it doesn't 
stop for anyone, even those  with a true soul 
connection. Before Sunrise has become  the dream-world 
and Before Sunset is the reality we  face.
Message 95

From:  Ali <mittenkg@y...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  6:29 pm  
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Suicide?

 ...What a pain for the filmmaker, to have test/canned 
versions  of the film accidentally distributed 
to the press. I love  Before Sunset as-is, so 
I'm glad Linklater canned the suicide  scars shot. 
Whether Celine attempted suicide or not isn't 
 necessarily relevant to their connection, but 
I suppose it's  relevant to why the night would 
have meant so much to her.
Message 98

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  6:39 pm  
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Foundation of 
a relationship

 ...Sex is not the premise of either of these 
two films. I  believe Linklater wanted to show 
that sex is secondary (almost  a bonus) to a true 
soul connection. By the time Celine and  Jesse 
did "the deed", they were connected on a deeper 
level  than that of the typical 'one night stand'.
Message 103

From:  "Allison" <clasikfanatik@y...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  6:53 pm  
Subject:  Re: Foundation of a relationship

 ...you only had to look at how heartbroken they 
were at the  parting scene at the train station; 
to see the deep connection  they had with each 
other that went beyond a mere one-night  tryst... 
didn't you just loved the long gaze they kept 
on  exchanging at the plaza the morning after? 
It's so indicative  of how their feelings for 
each other had evolved over the few  hours they 
spent together...it was magical...
Message 109

From:  "hiroshiupshur" <hiroshiupshur@y...>  

Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  10:39 pm  
Subject:  Foundation

 ...it was about communication. It was about 
being truthful and  open.
Message 110

From:  "Jeremy Zorn" <jeremyzorn@c...>  
Date:  Thu Jul 22, 2004  10:47 pm  
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Foundation

 ...They connected mentally, so they talked for 
14 hours. They  connected physically, so they 
had sex.
Message 112

From:  "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>  
Date:  Fri Jul 23, 2004  12:21 am  
Subject:  Re: Foundation

 ...Jesse speaks about marrying because of his 
higher self  but he hasn't been honest with 
himself. His higher self is  with Celine. A love 
on this level can only bring out our best.  The 
connection that these two have spiritually is 
on a far  different plane (than mere lust). The 
pain that they have  experienced is a reflection 
of nothing else measuring up to  the apex of their 
euphoria for those 14 hours. It's almost a  sacred 
thing.
Message 113

From:  Jill Lee <jillannalee@y...>  
Date:  Fri Jul 23, 2004  12:46 am  
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Foundation of 
a relationship

 ...IF there weren't any feelings or connection 
between Celine  and Jesse. Why write a book about 
it?... Why dream about  her?... Why think about 
each other?... Why seek each other  out?...
Message 114

From:  "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...>  
Date:  Fri Jul 23, 2004  1:02 am  
Subject:  Re: Foundation of a relationship

 ...The case for being cautious is when relationships 
are being  dealt with, on a lower karmic level, 
which is to say less  about spiritual bond, cohesion, 
compatibility and more about  instant gratification. 
How long does it take to love someone  or something? 
I suppose that varies for everyone. I've had a 
 few cases in life where I loved something or 
someone  instantaneously.... If you don't take 
a chance, you can never  reach that higher plane.
Message 116

From:  tietableguy@y...  
Date:  Fri Jul 23, 2004  2:48 am  
Subject:  Re: Foundation of a relationship

 ...the most important thing of all: if only 
one person in the  relationship is working on 
it, it won't last. That's why I'm  not sure where 
Jesse and Celine will end up: I'd like to see 
 them stay together, but there are hard choices 
for both to  make.
Message 118

From:  "edwinpyang" <edwinyang@h...>  
Date:  Fri Jul 23, 2004  6:16 am  
Subject:  Jesse's book and Celine's song

 ...I would like to say that Jesse writing a 
whole book as a  means for finding Celine is possibly 
the most romantic gesture  I've ever heard of. 
I suppose another way to go would have  been to 
write a song about that night in Vienna...(as 
Celine  does). Anybody would be so lucky to spend 
14 hours that good,  vibrant, and life-affirming 
with another person in a whole  lifetime.
Message 119

From:  "edwinpyang" <edwinyang@h...>  
Date:  Fri Jul 23, 2004  6:33 am  
Subject:  lyrics to A Waltz For A Night

 ...I think Celine's song is the single most 
romantic ACTUAL  MOMENT that we see in either 
film. I've never seen a character  more vulnerable 
than when she pauses and blurts out the name  
"Jesse".
Message 120

From:  "Aidan" <oranje68@h...>  
Date:  Fri Jul 23, 2004  7:06 am  
Subject:  Movie Review

 1.- ...I would not be surprised if Ethan's brilliant 
novel "The  Hottest State" was not partly written 
with half an eye to  reconciling his own past. 
The male autobiographical novel is  often confessional, 
helplessly romantic and ultimately  impossible 
'the big intense love' that many men have  somewhere 
before the age of 23-- that just cannot be equaled 
 until you have your first child.  2.- ...They 
froze the night in time and immortalized it by 
not  allowing real life to rot at the edges of 
the memory. What  they had, was not love because 
love is something that also  knows bad times when 
your partner may not always be so  perfect.
Message 121

From: Allison <clasikfanatik@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:54am
Subject: Re: The uncertainty of whether they 
had sex (Before Sunrise)

 ...Did anyone notice that when they show the 
flashbacks at the end  of the movie and when they 
show the grass where they made love,  that there 
is an empty wine bottle where they were? C&J are 
litterbugs!!
Message 124

From: hiroshi upshur <hiroshiupshur@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:29am
Subject: Re: Movie Review

 ...I am the only one here that was concerned 
with the state of his wife. He has a wife and 
we all feel for Celine and Jesse - but what about 
his wife? What about her boyfriend ? I said I 
can't and one should not  come to a final conclusion 
until we hear from them .
Message 125	

From: hiroshi upshur <hiroshiupshur@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:39am
Subject: Re: Jesse's book and Celine's song

 ...As some famous poet once said - "Love is 
NOT A FEELING to be heard."
Message 133

From: jerri willmore <colouringpurple@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Foundation of a relationship

 ...I think we all have ideals :/ The most important 
thing is  people caring about each other. Thank 
you for all your thoughts.
Message 150  	

From: john griffiths <john.griffiths@g...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: message board ?

 ...one new recruit here...hello all - just saw 
BS today as it was  only released in the UK today....absolutely 
stunned....everything  I wanted from it, and more 
-
Message 151

From: Danial Monckton <vainer44@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: message board ?

 ...Here come the English. (See prior message)
Message 152

From: john griffiths <john.griffiths@g...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: message board ?

 >>>>>Here come the english>>>> ...and the Scottish 
:-) (see prior message)
Message 155

From: samantha <samantha@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Ok people

 ...Anyway, there's lots of great lines in Sunrise, 
but I think the best is when Celine tells her 
friend on the phone that Jesse kind of kisses 
like an adolescent, and he's insulted, and she's 
amused. But my favorite moment is void of dialogue 
-- the listening booth.  As for Sunset, Celine's 
outburst in the limo breaks my heart and inspires 
me over and over again. Delpy is so fantastic 
in the sequel.
Message 156

From: Ali <mittenkg@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: The uncertainty of whether they 
had sex (Before Sunrise)

 ...So, in essence, that, to me, is the significance 
of the wine bottle and glasses  left behind. It 
shows that Jesse and Celine WERE there, it really 
did happen,  this wasn't just a dream. Could this 
also be the purpose of having a tottering  old 
lady walk past their place of consummation? I 
always thought she served  as a juxtaposition 
between young, impulsive love and the steady purposefulness 
 of the elderly. But maybe her presence has greater 
symbolism? She might represent  the passing of 
time, the gray area between dreaming and reality 
or maybe  she's just a nod to Celine's thoughts 
about being an old woman.
Message 159

From: Ali <mittenkg@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:08pm
Subject: Re: Ok people

 ...I also agree with Sam that a favorite line 
is from Celine describing Jesse kissing like an 
adolescent. I also like how she calls him clumsy--that's 
the first (only) time I've ever heard that word 
used endearingly, and it's the perfect word to 
 describe him. And the entire limousine eyelash 
poem--I SWOONED the first time I heard that cute 
bum read it! (who IS that actor?)
Message 162

From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:19pm
Subject: The irony of convincing Celine to get 
off the train

 ...Is anyone else struck by the remarkable irony 
of the dialogue in the first film whereupon Jesse 
convinces Celine to get off the train with him? 
Picture yourself married 20 years from now, but 
your marriage doesn't have that same spark. I'm 
just as boring...etc. In reality, she didn't get 
married and the scenario he presents more represents 
HIM. But instead of him not being anything special, 
he in fact is the best thing that ever happened 
to her. So while he's selling the go-with-the-flow, 
it's-not-a-big-deal mentality, in fact it IS a 
big deal, maybe the most important choice she'll 
ever make romantically...until, of course, they 
don't exchange phone numbers!
Message 166

From: kristel pizon <kedp317@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:25pm
Subject: Re: lasting love

 ...I was thinking today about the first night 
my husband and i spent together,  talking, and 
sharing and falling in love. It was a wonderful 
night and I  think if it had been our only night 
he definitely would have been the one  that got 
away, the person i would think about for the rest 
of my life, what if.... Instead we got married, 
4 kids, a house, stress, love and pain, etc... 
you know the drill and now, though I love him 
still, much of the time we are  just surviving 
this whole life thing, so i think in fact Jesse 
and Celine have a much better chance at their 
love lasting on a deep level, because they are 
 meeting now instead of Dec. 16th. Now they know 
what it is like to live a life without each other, 
and i think their love is deeper because of it. 
Had they  dated in their 20's the depth of love 
would not have been as substantial simply because 
they would never have experienced an existence 
without it.  Voici mes penses pour se soir...
Message 167

From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:32pm
Subject: Re: lasting love

 ...What if Celine had gotten his number and 
didn't call anyway? What if she tracked him down 
via the Internet three or four years later? What 
if he was on the way to his wedding, saw the person 
he thought was Celine, stopped and it was? Would 
he have called off the wedding right then and 
there? As you well know, there are commitment 
people" people who can devote their whole heart 
and mind to a relationship after only knowing 
the other a short while. They CHOOSE to do so 
and invest that energy. Some people spend years 
together and never give much of anything. So I 
don't buy the rationalistic arguments about age, 
responsibility, etc. Yes, there are those who 
live off many one-night stands. But some people 
really are willing to put everything on the line 
for a loving energy on another level. When two 
of those people meet, that rare instance, incredible 
magic can occur. That's why we love these movies. 
We believe in magic.
Message 169

From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:51pm
Subject: Re: lasting love

 ...Watching Jesse throughout this second movie, 
while he mostly remains more stoic than Celine-- 
he definitely looks more weathered IMHO. Not living 
the dream has taxed him. She can always tell herself 
that on Dec. 16 he probably wasn't there anyway 
(until this moment). But he knew she wasn't there. 
And that is far more disillusioning than anything 
else. He says he forgives her, but until she actually 
shows up at the bookstore,  my guess is that deep 
down, she really has wounded him to the point 
 of accepting a lot less in life. She sought more 
in life-- and didn't  find it. It's really two 
different kinds of frustration.
Message 171	 	

From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:08pm
Subject: Re: lasting love

 ...You must not only find The One, but be 
The One. So many people wonder why they can't 
find a true love. Maybe part of their problem 
is that they don't take themselves to another 
level.
Message	172

From: kristel pizon <kedp317@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:23pm
Subject: Re: lasting love

 ...I am confused about what makes anyone 'the 
one' are you 'the one'  simply because you are 
sharing your lives and therefore by definition, 
 you are 'the one' or are you the one, because 
you didn't spend your life  together and you got 
away and you spend your life thinking about  'what 
could have been'. If we are spending our life 
with 'the one',  then why do so many people who 
truly love each other seek others after  years 
of marriage?  I'm saying maybe what makes them 
even more 'the one'  is the fact that they didn't 
spend their  20's together getting cynical together, 
 their years apart: solidified their oneness for 
each other.
Message 176

From: jerseybucsfan <mayda-barry@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 24, 2004 0:09am
Subject: Re: The uncertainty of whether they 
had sex (Before Sunrise)

 ...Remember Celine in the church saying that 
she always saw herself as an old woman, waiting 
to die? This can also be the Celine of the future, 
the old woman looking back. In a way, maybe that 
was why she was so close with her grandmother, 
because she saw her as a peer on some level.
Message 181

From:  Ali <mittenkg@y...> 
Date:  Sat Jul 24, 2004  4:40 am 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] The irony of 
convincing Celine to get off the train

 ...but gee, it's moments like that kind of irony 
in Sunrise that I start thinking of  MY ones who 
got away.  Ridiculous, I know, but you can't help 
thinking that way sometimes when you're single: 
every other missed opportunity could have been 
the end-all perfect fella.  Or not.  Or was.  
It's pathetic!
Message 184

From:  "cosdelli" <cosdelli@h...> 
Date:  Sat Jul 24, 2004  8:18 pm 
Subject:  before midnight

 ...if I had a dime for every time i referred 
people to watch before sunrise, I would be a billionaire 
(ok, maybe a millionaire by now). sunrise was 
and is a "gem". Sunset is more so, because of 
the maturity and sincerity of the characters - 
we grew up with them and we all relate to them. 
It is a treasure. All credit goes to Delpy, Linklater 
and Hawke. But I sense that Delpy's words are 
all over this film. I already have the third film 
in my mind - 'Before Midnight!'
Message 185

From:  "Ashley" <cheerygal1@y...> 
Date:  Sat Jul 24, 2004  9:44 pm 
Subject:  Celine and Jesse in Waking Life

 ...I loved Linklater's "Waking Life" And enjoyed 
seeing Celine and Jesse appearing in the movie. 
I didn't think that there would be a sequel to 
"Before Sunrise". And I thought Linklater was 
just placing the characters in "Waking Life" to 
let the fans know that the two did meet at the 
train and are happy. But I'm much more excited 
that he didn't leave it at that and actually gave 
us another story on the characters.
Message 191

From:  "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  12:04 am 
Subject:  Re: The irony of convincing Celine 
to get off the train

 ...Yes, I'm married, but I can honestly say 
that there were several others that I COULD have 
married given only slightly different circumstances. 
I dedicated two poetry anthologies (neither published) 
to special women, neither of whom I married. What 
if I had met them a year earlier? A year later? 
What if that wonderful girl I met when I was a 
senior in high school had wanted me to go with 
her, when she went back to Europe?  I'm not expressing 
an overwhelming regret over my life, but given 
some other circumstances, things could've been 
dramatically different.
Message 216

From:  "Caroline Pohlman" <dorothy_caroline_waniak@y...>
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  4:39 pm 
Subject:  Hello

 ...I saw "Before Sunrise" in 1995 on my very, 
very first date with my now husband - so as you 
can see, we are very attached to this movie and 
were elated to hear about the sequel. I saw it 
yesterday in London  and loved it. I love how 
Linklater doesn't patronize youth and doesn't 
 sugar-coat the 30's angst, either. My only sadness 
is in knowing that  Jesse must now choose between 
Celine and Henry...
Message 219

From:  "tjh2947" <tyler.haney.03@a...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  5:41 pm 
Subject:  Comments and Recommendations

 ...did you guys notice how similar Jesse's current 
marriage resembles his parent's own marriage? 
In "BSunrise" he describes his folks as "two  
people who didn't like one another too much, who 
decided to get married and have a kid." They only 
stayed together for Jesse and his sister's benefit. 
 Now, in "BSunset", Jesse knows he's becoming 
his father. And, obviously, he's not happy.
Message 220

From:  Ali <mittenkg@y...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  8:16 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Comments and 
Recommendations

 ...I don't have film recommendations that are 
thematically similar to S/S, but I go to silent 
film festivals and many of my favorite romantic 
comedies have a dreamy,  montage-y quality. So 
do horror flicks, for that matter. Of course in 
silent films, the comedy tends to be more slapstick 
than ironic, and the dialogue is next to nil, 
but if you get a chance to see Harold Lloyd, Mary 
Pickford or Chaplin on the big screen--particularly 
with live music--check it out and you'll see what 
I mean. And with all this montage-talk, I'm always 
a sucker for that over-the-top and way-romantic 
spliced-film montage at the end of Cinema Paradiso.
Message 222

From:  samantha <samantha@s...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  8:39 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Comments and 
Recommendations

 ...The settings and relationships in these two 
films [BSunset and Lost In Translation] are so 
different (unlike some critic's reviews) that 
I couldn't even find a comparison between the 
two (other than the obvious 'strangers meet in 
a foreign locale') when I first saw 'Lost In Translation' 
I found difference upon difference...Both seem 
to be about:  connections are valuable, but in 
LiT they are extremely transitory: These aren't 
people who would necessarily connect in any way 
under different circumstances. They don't talk 
about anything "real" for most of the time they're 
together. They silently relate to pain and circumstance. 
In contrast: Jesse and Celine could find each 
other at any time and find a connection. Bob and 
Charlotte... I'm not so sure.
Message 223 

From:  timelord2029@a... 
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  8:49 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] The Notebook

 In a message dated 25/07/2004 19:09:32 GMT Daylight 
Time,  vainer44@yahoo.com writes:  [I have not 
seen [Lost in Translation] yet...I'll have to 
check it out.  Was it really that good?]  ...oh 
man! It was a total emotional roller coaster. 
No other film has ever made me cry more than that 
one. Just take plenty of hankies and prepare yourself.
Message 224

From:  darthmaul2112@y... 
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  9:37 pm 
Subject:  Re: lasting love

 ...I walked out of the theater (and for several 
hours later) feeling the exact same way you just 
described.  I think love in marriages changes 
dramatically after several years and "freshness" 
 or "magic" can fade. I think what mostly causes 
the freshness to  disappear or possibly fade, 
is that we as individuals (especially in the US) 
 just get too caught up in the hustle and bustle 
of life and don't take the time to "stop and smell 
the roses". When I really sit down and think about 
it,  my wife has so many beautiful qualities and 
an honest heart of gold which is so rare in this 
day and age. I couldn't imagine not wanting to 
be a part of her little quirks, facial expressions, 
body language etc. That is love right there, DEEP 
love...All I know is that the happiest and most 
satisfied I feel each day is the  moment I crawl 
into bed and my wife is turned to her right and 
I spoon  right up to her. That may sound goofy 
and gay but it's true. That little moment  of 
time each day makes everything worthwhile.  Bottom 
line: appreciate those little quirks and moments 
of bliss and you will continue to love them forever.
Message 225

From:  "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  11:25 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love

 ...I think the key in this, is to love them 
that much to begin with. A lot of people settle 
for a particular partner, say it's time to 
get married, marry for money or for status. The 
reality is that too many people really don't give 
that much energy to begin with and thus things 
never get all that positive. I think it's more 
than just a subtle appreciation of small characteristics, 
but also a willingness to love something else. 
Some love changes, some don't. Clearly Jesse and 
Celine are  different in a lot of ways, but the 
reality is that they loved  each other all these 
years and are gonna love each other no matter 
 what happens. It's a very conscious commitment 
to loving.  And the magic that we so admire is 
the DEPTH of the love.
Message 228

From:  kristel pizon <kedp317@y...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 25, 2004  11:45 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love

 ...I think sometimes in reality, the depths 
of love can be endless but still the reality of 
life makes it hard to keep that love alive and 
active. I married out of very passionate love, 
like I mentioned before. We met (I was 23) we 
fell instantly in love, married 5 weeks later, 
and sometimes I think that love would of continued 
on a different, maybe more deep level, had we 
been separated for the next 11 years, instead 
of married. I think that the everyday stresses 
can kill the magic regardless of the depth of 
love.
Message 229

From:  "hinckley_buzzards" <rtaylor340@a...> 

Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  12:15 am 
Subject:  Re: Comments and Recommendations

 ...about Lost in Translation. I missed it in 
the theaters but I bought the DVD.  Before watching 
it, I read some reviews that mentioned Before 
Sunrise,  so I got my hopes up and I was disappointed. 
LIT is visually beautiful and the soundtrack serves 
it well (I listen to the CD often at work), but 
LIT was not very verbal, and the conversation 
is what makes Before Sunrise special. So  I think 
those reviewers who compared LIT to BS were missing 
the point.
Message 230

From:  "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  12:34 am 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love

 I believe it was Khalil Gibran that said Let 
there be spaces in your togetherness. Sometimes 
I feel like my wife and I get along because we 
don't get sick of each other. We give each other 
space. I'm not insinuating that is a problem for 
you, but I hear ya in terms of everyday problems....finances, 
errands, kids, work, etc. I think it saps one's 
creative juices which are critical in romantic 
love. Nothing works best on auto pilot. In time, 
my wife came to  realize that without energy (without 
working out, recreational activities)  I was a 
different person. So she gave me more room to 
be myself  and it improved our relationship.
Message 231

From:  Danial Monckton <vainer44@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  1:45 am 
Subject:  Make time stop(INXS)

 Anybody remember the song Not Enough Time by 
INXS?  ...I was just listening to this song and 
it has always reminded me of an old lover I had...And 
I just thought...What would be the song Jesse 
would have had for Celine?
Message 233

From:  "jerseybucsfan" <mayda-barry@p...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  3:59 am 
Subject:  Trapeze lyrics 

 ...For anybody who wondered.... One of my favorite 
songs in the first movie and on the soundtrack 
is Lou Christie's Trapeze. He's got kind of 
a B-52's sound and almost sounds absurd at times. 
But there's something about the frantic element 
in this song that is so appropriate  for their 
romance, particularly in that scene where they're 
getting the bottle of wine. Only someone young 
and daring would ask such a thing. One other thought. 
The last set of lyrics would be very appropriate 
for what Jesse would've thought when Celine DIDN'T 
show up on Dec. 16. Anyway....
Message 235

From:  tietableguy@y... 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  4:13 am 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love

 ...I met my wife in May and married her in December, 
yet we have a deeper relationship now than when 
we met. Don't let anyone fool you, a marriage 
is hard work. Yes the sheer thrill of the newness 
is gone, but that doesn't mean your relationship 
is ruined. "All the qualities you fell in love 
with are still there, they are just familiar now. 
Find a way to make them new, and keep doing that 
 and I guarantee you won't complain anymore."--the 
last words are from my  grandfather, who was married 
in 1940 after a month of courtship.
Message 238

From:  "edwinpyang" <edwinyang@h...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  12:40 pm 
Subject:  Edge of the Ocean lyrics

 "Edge Of The Ocean" by Ivy  "There's a place 
I dream about where the sun never goes out. And 
the sky is deep and blue. Won't you take me there 
with you..."  ...It almost hurts to know this 
song won't be on the soundtrack when I eventually 
get a copy. They did a nice job of matching the 
song's opening strain to the mood of the movie 
(Sunset) by putting it on the WB site and in the 
trailer - someone said it played over the closing 
credits, but I don't remember...I thought the 
part on the web site  was just a good sample of 
mood music; it's a pleasant shock to know the 
lyrics as I do now and see the narrative meaning 
it takes on for Celine and Jesse's reunion. This 
song, for me at least, has become as synonymous 
with these beloved movies as Kath Bloom's "Come 
Here."
Message 239

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  12:56 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] The Notebook

 ...Here's my 2 cents on The Notebook: I went 
to see it last week because  a lot of people have 
mentioned that it's a really good romance and 
storyline.  "A movie like no other". The movie 
is entertainment Hollywood-style,  and I don't 
believe that it reached the emotional depth of 
Before Sunset. I walked out of the cinema as the 
same girl that walked in (short $9.25 CAD)... 
I saw Before Sunset twice, the last time being 
July 13th, and I'm still thinking  about it and 
the effect it has had on my own thought processes 
about life and love.  But, that's just me...
Message 240

From:  "vainer44" <vainer44@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  1:13 pm 
Subject:  99 members people

 ...We have only been around for a little more 
then a week and we are at 100 people.....well 
99 but I'm sure we will be there by the end of 
the day.
Message 241

From:  "josephine_1014" <josephine_1014@y...> 

Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  1:29 pm 
Subject:  Re: The Notebook

 ...I have been thinking so much about "Before 
Sunset"...more so than I ever thought I would.
Message 245

From:  "fairmanimation" <fairmanimation@y...> 

Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  1:49 pm 
Subject:  Re: Neurotic

 ...the part where she goes on about how all 
of her past boyfriends are married but no one 
has ever proposed to her was a little scary for 
me because I got the same rant from an ex-girlfriend.
Message 250

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  2:50 pm 
Subject:  Re: Neurotic

 ...I believe that too many of us worry about 
sounding neurotic or crazy so we end up hiding 
behind these masks we call "normal". The car scene 
was the moment of truth.... both finally remove 
the masks they've been wearing all these years.
Message 251

From:  "Jeremy Zorn" <jeremyzorn@c...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  3:00 pm 
Subject:  RE: [sunriseandsunset] Re: Neurotic

 ...it happens when they are finally in a confined 
space, as though the physical intimacy has somehow 
forced them to be more open.  They're stuck in 
the car, and there's no place to hide -- which 
is, of course, why Celine wants so desperately 
to get out. I'd posit she'd be fine if they resumed 
their walk, talking without necessarily looking 
at one another and able to react to other stimuli 
(the birds, the river, Notre Dame) when the most 
immediate grow too raw.
Message 252

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  3:24 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: The Notebook

 ...Linklater created two films where, by now, 
I feel like I know Celine & Jesse because they 
represent 'me' my friends, my neighbors... These 
two characters represent the people who don't 
get to have a happy ending...Or the ones whose 
road to a happy ending is strewn with a lot more 
obstacles than the ones shown in The Notebook 
(movie)...
Message 256

From:  kristel pizon <kedp317@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  4:37 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Smoking scene

 ...This scene itself didn't bother me but I 
find irony in that she is discussing the pollution 
of the world etc....while polluting her lungs...that 
struck me...
Message 258

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  5:07 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Smoking scene

 ...I know.... smoking is a self-destructive 
habit but, considering Celine's Parisian life-style 
and emotional state, it is understandable that 
she lights up once in a while... That cafe scene 
is so Paris!
Message 259

From:  "neo_arc" <neo_arc@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  5:26 pm 
Subject:  Re: Neurotic

 ...One thing I found on second viewing was how 
powerful Jesse's own cathartic scene in the car 
was. The first time I watched, it was all about 
Celine for me, but the second time, Jesse's hit 
me a little harder.
Message 262

From:  Jill Lee <jillannalee@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  6:57 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset]lasting love

 ...After seeing the movie, all I could think 
of is why can't I have the same connection as 
Celine and Jesse? Of course I'm fully aware of 
the fact that it is a movie no matter how many 
times I've said to everyone in this forum that 
Sunset seemed to be the most realistic romantic 
movie ever. But I did hope to have the same thing 
-- and I did panic because I was afraid that I 
started to believe in something so ideal that 
it can't be true. And then somehow, I started 
to lose hope for my boyfriend and myself... it 
even drove me to depression that weekend...never 
wanted to be affected by fictional characters... 
much less by a movie -- but I guess that's why 
I joined this group... because I was affected 
by it... in a personal level.
Message 264

From:  "spiderwebbeauty" <spiderwebbeauty@s...> 

Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  6:57 pm 
Subject:  Re: smoking ....hope, magic...

 ...They find each other fascinating and that 
is what is so touching...they never got over one 
another and they had that hope. HOPE and Magic. 
I think this love story touches people on so many 
levels. It is almost like a fantasy that could 
come true. It could happen.
Message 267

From:  kristel pizon <kedp317@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  7:31 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: The Notebook

 ...it wasn't the lost years of opportunity that 
tempered the happy moments of this film it was 
what Jesse will have to do in order to be with 
Celine, the choices he will have to make, the 
changes that will effect everyone.  I too, was 
incredibly depressed after seeing the film, wondering 
how one was supposed to follow their heart and 
true self once they were committed to a relationship, 
a family. Do we completely give all that up for 
the sake of the family? ...That was the pain and 
beauty of this film for me: that Jesse must face 
that and then go further, however it 's different 
for a man than a woman, if a man follows his true 
self and leaves his family it is more accepted-- 
than for a woman.
Message 271

From:  "apriorivirtue" <apriorivirtue@n...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  9:05 pm 
Subject:  The opposite of depression/doubt

 ...Personally, I am one of the originals who 
has actually waited with bated breath for Before 
Sunset for nine years...this movie didn't depressed 
 me, but actually made me be thankful for what 
I have! ...for me was an intimate portrayal of 
hope...I felt like Jesse - "My problems are bigger, 
but I'm more equipped to handle them"...It further 
highlighted the reality of my current relationship 
and the deep value it has. For the longest time 
I subscribed to the notion of love being something 
that comes in and out of your life. Now this movie 
has pushed me back into a somewhat scary, yet 
exhilarating place - maybe my current girlfriend 
is "the one"?
Message 274

From:  Suncana <suncana76@y...> 
Date:  Mon Jul 26, 2004  11:18 pm 
Subject:  Re: lasting love

 ...connections exist in more forms than one. 
There are many levels of love and you can love 
many people in the course of your life. I called 
off my wedding five years ago because I realized 
that the love I had for my fianc‰ wasn't the kind 
of love I should have for the man I'm going to 
spend the rest of my life with. Looking back, 
there was always this nagging feeling that there 
was someone else out there, I was supposed to 
be with... I experienced it last year and for 
the first time in my life, I was at peace. The 
nagging feeling was gone. I was completely "me", 
without any censorship or hesitation. It was a 
very liberating feeling. Even though it was just 
the beginning, it felt as if we knew each other 
in many lifetimes before...Life is interesting, 
yet sad...yet hopeful that way...
Message 285

From:  "darcy424" <darcy424@y...> 
Date:  Tue Jul 27, 2004  2:25 pm 
Subject:  magic

 ...Maybe it's because I've traveled around Europe 
by train like (Jesse & Celine) and have met fantastic 
people and connected with them. The movie makes 
me realize how important it is not to settle in 
life when it comes to a relationship, certainly 
not a marriage. I wonder how many couples come 
out of that movie realizing that they are not 
with their soul mate and that they wish they were? 
It's exactly what I'm thinking and I know that 
I'm tired of being in a mediocre relationship 
and will continue searching for my soul mate.
Message 289

From:   "Jennette" <misspig623@y...> 
Date:  Tue Jul 27, 2004  3:21 pm 
Subject:  Re: The Notebook

 ...I could relate. "What could have been?" --is 
something we've all wondered at some point in 
our lives.
Message 290

From:  "spiderwebbeauty" <spiderwebbeauty@s...> 

Date:  Tue Jul 27, 2004  3:55 pm 
Subject:  Re: magic

 ...the scene in the car was the turning point...the 
truth finally came out because they both new they 
were running out of time...
Message 294

From:  hiroshi upshur <hiroshiupshur@y...> 
Date:  Tue Jul 27, 2004  6:54 pm 
Subject:  Re: [sunriseandsunset] Re: The Notebook

 ...Love is overcoming obstacles and total commitment 
to the end. It's a fairy tale, only because to 
achieve this "love" it takes sticking and working 
thru the conflicts no matter what. It takes hard 
work. We as a society seek the easy way. Divorce 
is easy today... In Before Sunset, though a wonderful 
film, I see the couple as a love that hasn't been 
tested yet. "What if Celine had been in a wheelchair? 
Both films are good as far as I am concerned but 
I'm a realist and a skeptic in more ways than 
one. If they were to continue: where would they 
live ? What about his work in the US? What about 
his son, his marriage? What about his wife? Will 
his son accept his new step mom? We don't know 
these things.
Next Person, Insert here Messages 301 - ...

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